Well, let's bring in our military
analyst, Professor Michael Clark, to
discuss more on this. Michael, good to
see you as always. They say necessity is
the mother of invention. And certainly,
judging by what Dominic saw there,
Ukraine has risen to that challenge to a
degree.
>> Yes, Matt, it always happens in war. The
the biggest technical leaps are almost
always made in war because of the need
to actually find something and to take
failure. Um the there is always a loss.
In peace time, companies want to produce
something that's 95 98% effective and
economic and all the rest of it. When
you're at war, you accept something that
only works 60% of the time or 70% of the
time and and you test it actually on the
battlefield. So, always in warfare,
things come on board very very quickly.
And the essence of military technology,
and this has been the case for the last
20 or 30 years, but we're now seeing the
real sharp edge of it, is the ability to
draw in civilian technologies and make
them applicable to military purposes.
Most of these things are in the civilian
area. The idea is to integrate them in a
way that makes sense for the military
and then to use them and deploy them in
sufficient numbers to make a difference.
That's the art of the modern, as it
were, military constructionist, civil
technology made to a military purpose.
>> We saw Don being told there just how
much Ukraine has ramped up production
here. Conversely, we've seen also in
that report, of course, Russian
propaganda saying it's done the same
with interests. Is that really the case?
Is Russia has Russia ramped up even more
than Ukraine is able to?
>> They they have. Yeah, they have ramped
up a lot. that that was the factory at
Alabooga in Tartaristan and the there
are literally hundreds and hundreds of
African and Asian women working at that
factory. They've been bought in
literally, you know, purchased as as
labor. Um it said that about 30,000
North Koreans are preparing to go to an
expanded version of that factory. And so
the Russians are producing this is the
Shahid drone, the the uh the 136.
They've got their own their own version
out the 238 um which is they call the
Juran the Jirean 2. They're very good.
However, the the Ukrainians have also
produced what they call the Flamingo
drone. It's the FP5. Their FP1 is the is
the one that they've produced lots and
lots of and they're very effective.
Their latest one is a cruise missile
called it FP5. They call it the
Flamingo. And the point about the
Flamingo is that the Ukrainians are
ahead on this one. They have produced
the Flamingo for about $50,000 each. And
those um uh uh Russian drones, the new
um uh Shahi drones are about $190,000
each. So the Ukrainians are out
producing, at least in terms of cost,
the Russians quite a lot. The problem
the Ukrainians have is that they don't
have enough money to invest in all of
the expansion that they need. Now, if
they were given more money or if they
had access to frozen Russian assets, it
would solve a lot of their problems
because they've got the labor, they've
got the skills, if they had the money to
actually invest in all of this. I
wouldn't say that they could match the
Russians, but they could certainly get
closer to them in some of the
technologies that really matter.
>> Interesting to revisit that point,
Michael. I remember quite early in the
war there was discussion around that 300
billion euros or so that I think the
European Union has frozen. It remains
frozen, does it? There still calls for
that to be released in some way to aid
Ukraine's war efforts.
>> It does remain frozen, Matt. I mean, the
what the West is doing is they're using
the interest on the on that frozen money
to um make loans available to Ukraine on
a long-term basis. That's quite good,
but I mean that only gives them sort of
7 to 10 billion at a time. And the
breakdown of that 300 billion is that
about a hundred billion of it is in the
United States and other countries.
Almost 200 billion, 190 of it, 190
billion is in Europe. most of it in
Belgium. And so whatever the Americans
decide to do, and they won't be very
helpful on this one, I don't think the
Europeans between them could actually
release up to 190 billion, just give it
to the Ukrainians, and that would
transform their war for the next two to
three years financially. It would give
them the money to invest in all of these
things. Now, the reason that the the
Europeans are wary of that is because
there are good legal reasons why you
don't want to do that. And you may you
may actually destroy confidence in
people putting putting money in your
banks in Europe if if there's a feeling
that in 10 years time assets might be
frozen and given away. I can see those
arguments absolutely. But there are also
other good legal arguments to say that
this is in these extraordinary times it
is not illegal to transfer the principal
sum the 190 billion of Russian assets.
You know the general view is you can you
can freeze assets but you can't seize
them. You can you can freeze them can't
give them away. But there is a legal
argument which says that in these
circumstances you can give them away.
Personally I would but you know a lot of
other people don't don't agree with
that.
>> Final question Michael up to this point
Ukraine has benefited from Western
support. They would say they need more
of course facing an existential threat
as they would perceive that they are.
What benefits are coming the other way?
We hear about the British government's
ambition to spend more 3% of GDP on
defense. Is Britain going to benefit
from the innovation that we're seeing
there in Ukraine?
>> Oh, you bet. This is all sixth
generation stuff. I mean, we're talking
about drones, but drones are just the
tipping edge of the revolution in
robotics. So, we're talking about sixth
generation aircraft where one aircraft
with one or two pilots in it controls
five or six other drone aircraft which
you've got no pilot in. And one ship
that's manned with 150 people, one
frigot has got five or six frigots
sailing with it or all robots, robotic
frigots. It's smaller, no crew, but they
do the same sort of job. That's the
sixth generation. And the same could
apply on the battlefield. One tank with
a crew in it and four four or five tanks
without a crew um that that tank is
controlling. Sixth generation
technology. So um Ukraine is on the
cutting edge of all of this. And it is
the fact, a simple fact that the two
best armies in Europe at the moment are
Ukraine and Russia because they're the
ones who are fighting and innovating.
And although the Russians do it in a
very crude way, in terms of sheer battle
experience, those are the best two
armies in Europe. And we talk about
training the Ukrainians. Believe me,
they can be training us pretty soon.